I came across a book today called: Being Christian: Exploring Where You, God and Life Connect. Now normally, even when I was a Christian, books like this didn't attract any attention from me. I'm just not a non-fiction kinda girl. However, I glanced at the back of this book and it listed a few questions that are answered inside the book and the author is assuming the reader would like to have answered. The one that caught my eye was: "Is there any sin that's beyond forgiving?" Of course, having been a Christian most of my life, I knew what this was referring to: "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29) but I admit, it's a verse that I never really understood and I imagine I'm not alone in that. I think as a Christian, I figured if I stayed away from all blasphemy and never felt anything but benevolence and respect for the Holy Spirit, I'd be safe and at very worst, if I did ever accidentally blasphemy the Holy Spirit, I hoped and believed that God was the kind of God that would understand my intentions and see that I didn't do it on purpose and maybe make an exception. Since it was a verse/question I was never really clear on, I was intrigued and cracked open the table of contents and found the page I needed. This is what I found:
(the following in quotes is the author paraphrasing Jesus' words to make them more clear to the reader - everything in italics is an excerpt from the book)
"I understand why people might say negative things about me personally; I have, after all, presented myself here on earth wearing the cloak of mortality. Some or even many are going to resist me, as I've expected and foretold. If a person doesn't at first believe in me, and speaks ill of me, but then later realizes that I am exactly who I say I am - God incarnate - then I will joyfully forgive that person whey they ask me to forgive their former blasphemies against me. No problem. But once a person has been filled with knowledge of my divinity - once my Spirit has come alive within them - and then they turn against me? That is unforgivable. Anyone filled with the Holy Spirit who then rejects the Spirit has created for themselves a world of hurt from which even I cannot deliver them."
At any rate, you see the point: What Jesus is saying is that you can doubt and even blaspheme against Christ before you accept him as your Savior - but once the Spirit is in you, you'd better not turn against him.
So the short answer to "Is there any sin that's beyond forgiving?" is that there's exactly one: Turning against Christ after you've accepted him. But that's the only such sin. Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of all our other sins, even the most heinous.
So there you have it - According to Jesus, according to Stephen Arterburn and John Shore, I am beyond hope now. Because I was a Christian and now have turned away, I have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and therefore, regardless of any further actions on my part, for good or evil, I am damned to hell because of this one UNFORGIVABLE sin. I feel I should probably tell the people in my life who are praying for me to stop wasting their words since if God is real and heaven and hell exist, I have a one way, non-refundable ticket down. And this further convinces me that I should NOT raise my children to be Christians but rather, allow them to make their own decisions when they understand all they can about the world and religion, etc and feel competent to make that choice since, I, having been indoctrinated as a child, was made to follow Christ before I really had to chance to make an informed choice - a situation that has now really screwed me over according to this verse. Others, who are raised anything but Christian, can doubt and speak against Christ and believe other things and decide to practice another religion as long as they don't first become a Christian, then ask questions later. However, people who are raised as Christians better be pretty darn sure that they don't believe any of it anymore before turning away because once you do turn, you create a "world of hurt" for yourself that Jesus himself can't save you from and there's no going back.
And that one paragraph: "So the short answer to "Is there any sin that's beyond forgiving?" is that there's exactly one: Turning against Christ after you've accepted him. But that's the only such sin. Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of all our other sins, even the most heinous."
It so comforts me to know that all the murderers, child molesters, rapists, greedy televangelists, Hitlers, and every other sinner has more hope than I, a good, thinking, kind unbeliever, do of ending up in heaven. I mean, they can all beg forgiveness, even on their death bed and it could be granted to them, while I could spend my entire life, taking care of the people I love, teaching my children to make a difference in the world, doing all sorts of good things with my life, and yet I will still end up in hell because I was once a Christian and now I'm not. Apparently, I can't even change my mind now! I don't believe any of this, but let's say someone came along that convinced me. It wouldn't matter because I've done the unforgivable and it's too late for me. Anyone who believes that we get our morals from God should really question this. According to this belief, I'm already screwed so what motivation do I have to do good? It's not going to earn me anything, I'm not good because I follow Jesus and he says to do good, I no longer have the Spirit so how can I have the fruits of the Spirit? And what you should really ask yourself is "do I really want to follow a God with these sorts of morals?" The kind of morals that say that taking a life, abusing people, being greedy, slaughtering millions - the most heinous sins - are forgivable but going from Christian to non-christian for any reason (including the reason that you've looked into it, thought about it, learned about it and it just doesn't make sense anymore) is SO bad that even God can't forgive you for it.
Now some people reading this might say, "But that's just one way to interpret that verse! I understand it this (less damning, more understanding, looks better for God's reputation) way!" which just leads me to reiterate what I've claimed in conversations with Christians in person, if not on this blog: the Bible is subjective and therefore not a Holy Book or a reliable source of information or guideline for living. If you can take any Bible verse and interpret it 2-100 different ways depending on your upbringing, personal bias, personal experiences, etc., how should I know which interpretation is the right one? Yours? The Pope's? That famous Christian writer? My own?
So stop praying for me. Don't waste your breath. Apparently there is one kind of person that God can no longer save and that's me.
Friday 17 May 2013
Saturday 13 April 2013
Going Public...sort of.
I think I'm going to go public. I think I'm ready for people to know that I no longer believe. I don't necessarily plan on throwing it in anyone's face but I'm considering including my blog address on Facebook so if anyone is curious enough, they can come check it out. Anyway, if you're new and here for the first time, take a deep breath and know your limits - the contents of this blog may shock you, especially since it's coming from me, someone you likely still thought was a Christian. Happy reading!
P.s. I would suggest, as a starting point, the first post, obviously but if you're not sure you're going to make it through all my posts, please give "how I got here" a chance as it will explain a lot.
P.s. I would suggest, as a starting point, the first post, obviously but if you're not sure you're going to make it through all my posts, please give "how I got here" a chance as it will explain a lot.
Monday 28 January 2013
Old Journal Entries #2
Here's another blast from the past - almost a year after the first journal entry I posted:
There is apparently a revival in Florida with Todd Bentley. We're watching the 50-somethingth service online at the church right now. He came for 3-4 nights and ended up staying quite a bit longer. I've come to observe. I don't know what I think about this sort of stuff anymore. It's not that I don't think it's of God. I guess I'm just wondering about all the people involved. I just want to know what everyone's thinking. Does the worship team struggle with pride? Is Todd or any leadership worn out from 50 straight nights of meetings? Why are people showing up? To get a high? Because they're conference junkies? To see a show of miracles? To change their lives? To become closer to God? The people from my church, why do they come to watch this? What's the difference between a song being anointed and it just working and sounding really good? What do people think about when they sing about God being "holy?" I've never gotten that. Pastor went to this revival for the past couple days. He texted me from Florida to ask me to play keys for him tomorrow. Sunday morning could be interesting.
I just really don't know what to do with all this. I feel like I don't have a good foundation. I feel like I've been raised on speaking in tongues, miracles, signs and wonders, revival and all the other extra Pentecostal stuff and that I haven't gotten a good solid foundation in the basics of Christianity like love and forgiveness and patience and a daily relationship with God rather than being filled with the "Holy Ghost". So I slip and slide everywhere and change my mind and believe then doubt and get so worn out all the time. I've been raised on icing - I'm missing the cake. A.D.D - it irks me when, at a conference, the guy on the stage says something and people cheer...sorry, it may be stupid but it bugs me - seems a lot like hype...now the worship leader has "holy laughter".......
Personally, I'm all conferenced out - for crazy charasmatic/pentecostal/revival/change-my-life-in-a-weekend kind of conferences. Who calls it a revival? The leadership of the church? Todd? Other people? Is it a revival meeting before "revival" hits? or was it just teaching services that turned into "revival?"
Oh, and the shaking and falling and groaning get me too - does this change anything? What's the point of it? Why do some people do it and others don't? Here's the "holy laughter" again.
How do we know that when someone yells "fire" in a revival service, conference or prayer that people aren't trained and don't trick themselves into thinking they feel hot or tingly or whatever they "feel" as the fire or power of God?
"Fire!" "More!" "Glory!" "Hallelujah!" "Drink!" "Fill!"
I should probably be open and willing and ready to receive but I'd like to know if God or this revival or "the glory" or whatever is powerful enough to overcome my skepticism.
Why can't I taste or smell or see or feel the presence of God?
The worship leader/piano player just fell off his stool and stopped playing because he's under the "power or God." If I was there, you couldn't lose me. I'd still be playing, straight-faced.
*I then list all the "healings" and "miracles" that happen that all, all of which can't be verified that the illness or disability existed in the first place (cancer, deafness) and therefore can't be verified that they were actually healed.
There is apparently a revival in Florida with Todd Bentley. We're watching the 50-somethingth service online at the church right now. He came for 3-4 nights and ended up staying quite a bit longer. I've come to observe. I don't know what I think about this sort of stuff anymore. It's not that I don't think it's of God. I guess I'm just wondering about all the people involved. I just want to know what everyone's thinking. Does the worship team struggle with pride? Is Todd or any leadership worn out from 50 straight nights of meetings? Why are people showing up? To get a high? Because they're conference junkies? To see a show of miracles? To change their lives? To become closer to God? The people from my church, why do they come to watch this? What's the difference between a song being anointed and it just working and sounding really good? What do people think about when they sing about God being "holy?" I've never gotten that. Pastor went to this revival for the past couple days. He texted me from Florida to ask me to play keys for him tomorrow. Sunday morning could be interesting.
I just really don't know what to do with all this. I feel like I don't have a good foundation. I feel like I've been raised on speaking in tongues, miracles, signs and wonders, revival and all the other extra Pentecostal stuff and that I haven't gotten a good solid foundation in the basics of Christianity like love and forgiveness and patience and a daily relationship with God rather than being filled with the "Holy Ghost". So I slip and slide everywhere and change my mind and believe then doubt and get so worn out all the time. I've been raised on icing - I'm missing the cake. A.D.D - it irks me when, at a conference, the guy on the stage says something and people cheer...sorry, it may be stupid but it bugs me - seems a lot like hype...now the worship leader has "holy laughter".......
Personally, I'm all conferenced out - for crazy charasmatic/pentecostal/revival/change-my-life-in-a-weekend kind of conferences. Who calls it a revival? The leadership of the church? Todd? Other people? Is it a revival meeting before "revival" hits? or was it just teaching services that turned into "revival?"
Oh, and the shaking and falling and groaning get me too - does this change anything? What's the point of it? Why do some people do it and others don't? Here's the "holy laughter" again.
How do we know that when someone yells "fire" in a revival service, conference or prayer that people aren't trained and don't trick themselves into thinking they feel hot or tingly or whatever they "feel" as the fire or power of God?
"Fire!" "More!" "Glory!" "Hallelujah!" "Drink!" "Fill!"
I should probably be open and willing and ready to receive but I'd like to know if God or this revival or "the glory" or whatever is powerful enough to overcome my skepticism.
Why can't I taste or smell or see or feel the presence of God?
The worship leader/piano player just fell off his stool and stopped playing because he's under the "power or God." If I was there, you couldn't lose me. I'd still be playing, straight-faced.
*I then list all the "healings" and "miracles" that happen that all, all of which can't be verified that the illness or disability existed in the first place (cancer, deafness) and therefore can't be verified that they were actually healed.
Old Journal Entries #1
So I found this the other day, all the way back from 2007. It's a journal entry about my beliefs and my questions and such and I thought I'd share because a) I find it interesting looking back and seeing the beginnings of where I am now and b) sort of to prove that this definitely has not been a very recent change - that it has been a long time coming. So here goes:
I've been thinking a lot about my relationship with God -- or lack thereof. I've heard that the longer you've been a Christian, the better/more you should know God. It makes sense. I should know God more this year than I did last year. I really should at least know Him more this month than last month, but we'll go with years because I don't even have that. I keep going over the same things over and over again. I don't really know how to explain it right...I guess I'm just following the rules...well, sort of. Yeah, like I flee sexual immorality, I don't lie, steal, cheat, dishonor my parents, take the Lord's name in vain, I don't work on Sundays, kill people (or hate them), covet, gossip, do drugs or drink alcohol, etc..you get the picture. but I don't know how to love God. I hate praying. I know how terrible that sounds..that means that I hate talking to God..ouch...but I do -- I get so bored and tired and would much rather do something else. Besides, there's always too much and not enough to pray for -- too many people and situations to pray for and not enough answers and things to pray for about them. and I really don't like reading my bible. If I'm reading a book and the author adds in bible verses, I skip them...They're annoying and I hate reading them. I hate sitting down and really reading the Bible because whatever I learn, I forget almost right away. I can never remember what I read about the day before. So what purpose does it serve? I know that if I want it to stick and everything, I have to really get into and study it and apply it, but I just don't want to. I sing/play on the worship team and lead worship but all I do is sing. I don't think about the words or consider whether it's pleasing God or not, or really even think about God at all. I think about the chords I'm playing, the way the drummer is playing, the way the bass players stands, the funny notes on the side of the music from the original that was previously used by another worship team member, how I can make the harmony sound better when there's no third harmony, etc. Midst all that, who has time to think about God? I'm just being honest about how I'm feeling and thinking these days. I know it's no good but I have to get it out to figure it out. I think I'm just too used to the Christianity thing. I can't seem to get past the flesh stuff to get to God. I guess in some ways, I'm bitter. About what? I'm not entirely sure. But I am bitter. When I talk about bitterness, my heart hurts and I tear up. What am I bitter about? The church, being used in the ministry, not having a real childhood, being eternally depended on, feeling like a disappointment when I take a break, being responsible for so many things, wanting to quit but wanting to please, being criticized and gossiped about, being verbally and emotionally attacked, being left out, being ignored, being lost and expected to find my own way, being misunderstood, being stabbed in the back, being lied to. And I don't know how to get past it all to get to God and what He really wants me to do and how He wants me to do it. I feel like praying is really emotional and sensing the Holy Spirit's presence is impossible for me. I can't see it, hear it, smell it, taste it, or feel it. You could tell me that it's there and I'd just have to believe you. I'm tired of all the church stuff. I don't know what to do. Anyway, I'm sure that if I did talk to God and all that jazz and actually had the right motives in place, I'd know what I was doing about life but it seems like even when I do fast and pray and read the Word and try to listen for God's voice, I'm as lost as I was when I started. I'm back to the whole "I can't hear God's voice" idea when it seems like everyone else doesn't have a hearing problem. Once again, I just don't know how to get around it.
I've been thinking a lot about my relationship with God -- or lack thereof. I've heard that the longer you've been a Christian, the better/more you should know God. It makes sense. I should know God more this year than I did last year. I really should at least know Him more this month than last month, but we'll go with years because I don't even have that. I keep going over the same things over and over again. I don't really know how to explain it right...I guess I'm just following the rules...well, sort of. Yeah, like I flee sexual immorality, I don't lie, steal, cheat, dishonor my parents, take the Lord's name in vain, I don't work on Sundays, kill people (or hate them), covet, gossip, do drugs or drink alcohol, etc..you get the picture. but I don't know how to love God. I hate praying. I know how terrible that sounds..that means that I hate talking to God..ouch...but I do -- I get so bored and tired and would much rather do something else. Besides, there's always too much and not enough to pray for -- too many people and situations to pray for and not enough answers and things to pray for about them. and I really don't like reading my bible. If I'm reading a book and the author adds in bible verses, I skip them...They're annoying and I hate reading them. I hate sitting down and really reading the Bible because whatever I learn, I forget almost right away. I can never remember what I read about the day before. So what purpose does it serve? I know that if I want it to stick and everything, I have to really get into and study it and apply it, but I just don't want to. I sing/play on the worship team and lead worship but all I do is sing. I don't think about the words or consider whether it's pleasing God or not, or really even think about God at all. I think about the chords I'm playing, the way the drummer is playing, the way the bass players stands, the funny notes on the side of the music from the original that was previously used by another worship team member, how I can make the harmony sound better when there's no third harmony, etc. Midst all that, who has time to think about God? I'm just being honest about how I'm feeling and thinking these days. I know it's no good but I have to get it out to figure it out. I think I'm just too used to the Christianity thing. I can't seem to get past the flesh stuff to get to God. I guess in some ways, I'm bitter. About what? I'm not entirely sure. But I am bitter. When I talk about bitterness, my heart hurts and I tear up. What am I bitter about? The church, being used in the ministry, not having a real childhood, being eternally depended on, feeling like a disappointment when I take a break, being responsible for so many things, wanting to quit but wanting to please, being criticized and gossiped about, being verbally and emotionally attacked, being left out, being ignored, being lost and expected to find my own way, being misunderstood, being stabbed in the back, being lied to. And I don't know how to get past it all to get to God and what He really wants me to do and how He wants me to do it. I feel like praying is really emotional and sensing the Holy Spirit's presence is impossible for me. I can't see it, hear it, smell it, taste it, or feel it. You could tell me that it's there and I'd just have to believe you. I'm tired of all the church stuff. I don't know what to do. Anyway, I'm sure that if I did talk to God and all that jazz and actually had the right motives in place, I'd know what I was doing about life but it seems like even when I do fast and pray and read the Word and try to listen for God's voice, I'm as lost as I was when I started. I'm back to the whole "I can't hear God's voice" idea when it seems like everyone else doesn't have a hearing problem. Once again, I just don't know how to get around it.
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