People can surprise you

So in my last post, I explained how "coming out" to my Dad went and had a tiny little freak out just thinking about telling my mom.  I promised I would update when I came up with the guts to tell her about my lack of faith - the time has come.

I went to visit my mom two weekends ago and as I had planned, we eventually went for a walk.  I told her that I had something that I wanted to talk to her about and that I would appreciate if she just listened first and asked questions after.  I gave her the long story of how I got to where I am and I could actually see her nodding along while I talked which made me think that she had no idea where I was going with this.  I don't know, maybe she did, but the way she was reacting made me think she was expecting me to tell her that I had doubts but now my faith is stronger than ever, rather than I had doubts and now I don't believe in God.  When I finally said it, I don't think she really reacted at all, which made me keep jabbering away until she had  something to say.  Although her reaction was much more positive than I was expecting, the things she talked about were expected.  Things like "hell is real" and "there's no atheists in fox holes" and "what if you're wrong?" and "you have to experience God in order to know he's real".  After three and a half hours of talking about it, I was spent and it was time for me to go home.  I was getting frustrated with the conversation and decided to tell her that I needed to stop talking about it for now.  She brought up a few more things and unfortunately, I didn't stay as calm as I would have liked.  I think that's what I'm most disappointed about - my eventual lack of calm because it makes me seem like I'm not as settled in my new lack of faith as I really am.  She, on the other hand, stayed very calm. Hence the "people can surprise you". So it went well. Much better than I expected. And I learned something.

I've told people that if God shows himself to me, I would believe in him - my problem is just that I don't have any proof of his existence. But I think that just believing in God wouldn't be enough because according to the Bible, you have to worship him too and give him your life and obey him completely and I wouldn't be ok with that.  So even if God showed up and therefore I had to believe him to be real, I still wouldn't necessarily become a Christian.

First, I'm not ok with completely handing my life over to someone else and doing everything they say.  Then I'm just a pawn.  What's the point of my life if I'm just living it for someone else?  I enjoy making my own decisions, with input from others that I trust or from other's who are impacted by a decision I make.  I enjoy using my mind to solve a problem or think creatively.  If God is such a god that would require that I give up thinking for myself, I don't think I want him.

Second, I'm not ok with the things that he apparently requires of people or tells them to do. IF the Bible is true and an accurate depiction of what God is like, I don't like him, agree with him, or think he's worthy of any sort of praise.  I don't like that he expected Adam and Eve to blindly obey him without them knowing why or even knowing about good and evil.  I don't like that when he's unhappy with how his creation turned out down the road, he kills nearly all of it off.  I don't like that he's against humanity bettering itself and outright moves against it (Babel).  I don't agree with him that it's ok to slaughter an entire people - men, women, and children (excluding the virgin women of course) - because they are not doing things your way (multiple old testament stories).  I don't agree with him that children should be killed or almost killed because their parents screwed up, God hardened their parent's heart or because God wants to know just how devoted their parent is (David and Bathsheba, Egyptian first borns, Abraham and Isaac).  Outside of the Bible and just thinking of real life, if God is real, he is undeserving of worship or praise. His priorities are messed up: providing fancy cars for preachers in the west while starving children in third world countries, requiring blind faith and trust over critical thinking and evidence, and requiring humans to attribute everything good to him, even good things we do or things we do well, and take every failure onto ourselves.  I don't think the God described in the Bible or by Christians is a good or loving god and if he does exist, I don't think I want anything to do with him.  I'd fight him the same as I'd fight any human that would do the same things.  I've had someone else tell me that I think my morals are better than God's but that they are really just different morals.  That just because God is a god, his morals must be better but that's just another reason I don't like "God" - he has a double standard.  I don't think gods should have a lower standard than mortals, if anything, greater power demands greater accountability.

Whew!  Now that you know what I've learned, I'll tell you how I learned it while talking with my mom.  My mom wants me to experience God and at first, to prove that I don't believe in God because I hate him, I asked how I was supposed to do that.  Basically, her answer was for me to start over: to pray the sinner's prayer and be open to God. I've tried that and I'm done trying.  If God wants me to experience him, he'll have to come find me.  But our conversation ended by her telling me that the first thing I should do after I invite Jesus into my heart is to tell someone and that she'd be waiting by the phone and it was then that I realized that she really didn't get it.  I'm not wasting any more of my time with this: a) because I really don't think that I'll find God if I go looking and b) as stated before, I don't think I'd want him, even if I did find him so what's the point?

So I guess I should say that while I don't hate God (because as I said in another post, how can I hate something that doesn't exist?),  I don't like the idea of God and I don't plan on searching it out in hopes that it's real - because I'd rather it wasn't.  Now, I don't agree with believing or not believing in something because you hope or don't hope it's real.  That doesn't actually define reality.  But I feel like I've done a lot of looking at both sides and this side seems to be a more realistic picture of reality and if I'm going to be doing any searching, it's Atheism that I owe at least 10+ more years to - Christianity and God have had enough of my time to prove themselves.

Telling the 'rents

So I said that I would post an update when I eventually "came out" to my parents - this is half an update and half a post of worries.  I've told my father but not my mother so I'll tell you how my father took it and write about how nervous I am to tell my mother.

My dad listened as I told him about my questions and how my answers have led me to not believe in God anymore.  He very simply said that he would leave it between God and me and if God is real, and he thinks he is, He will show Himself to me.  I replied that that would be fine with me, that I'm not against God, I just haven't found enough reason to believe in Him and that He showed Himself undeniably to me, I would believe, but that I just can't decide to believe, I need to be convinced.  Holy run-on sentence.  I think that's still true (that if God showed Himself to me, I would believe in Him), however, I'm beginning to wonder if I would follow Him.  The more I look at it, the more I think, that even if God does exist, I don't think He's good or worthy of being followed and would likely refuse Him anyway.  I know that to a lot of Christians that sounds pretty harsh and I probably sound exactly like what they think an atheist is: not someone who disbelieves God but hates Him and is choosing to refuse Him even though He is "so obvious".  I think it makes a lot of sense and I promise to post in the future to clarify.  For right now, I'm just posting about my parents.

So dad took it pretty well.  I didn't really know how he would take it because sometimes about some things, he's very faith/religion oriented but at other times with other things, he's more practical and realistic.  I kinda feel like his response was a balanced one from his life - a little bit of both.

My mum on the other hand is full out religion oriented.  I've actually considered not telling her at all because I don't want to burden her with the thought that (according to her beliefs) I won't join her in heaven someday.  However, mum and I were pretty close growing up, and had a lot of talks encouraging each other in Christianity and even though, again, I haven't given any her any reason to think I still believe all that, I haven't started outright "sinning" either so she, along with all the other Christians in my life, assume I'm still one.  Therefore, mum still talks with me like we used to and I definitely feel like I'm being dishonest with her.  I'm hoping to visit her this weekend and go for a walk and tell her. I don't want to be in her house when I tell her because I feel like she would feel cornered and I want to give her the space and chance to not invite me back in that day.  I understand that it will be a lot for her to process.  I also plan and on telling her the long version of my story.  With most people that I've told, I given a little intro and then got right to the point: I don't believe in God anymore.  With mum, I'm going to start at the beginning and slowly get to my point.  Hopefully that way, she's be eased into it and before I get to the punch line, she'll already be guessing at it and attempting to prepare herself. And hopefully, if she starts crying, or yelling, or begging, or questioning, or maybe not speaking at all, I can stay calm.

That's how I figure coming out to mum will go. But a good friend once told me, "People can surprise you." so we'll see how it goes and I'll definitely update when it's done.

Things I want to post to Facebook but can't - yet #6

Hank's Butt

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's butt with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His butt?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's butt, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the snot out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His butt."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the butt?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's butt with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's butt often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the snot out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's butt, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's butt for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's butt He'll kick the snot out of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss His butt?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His butt. Other times we kiss Karl's butt, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's butt. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His butt, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

From the Desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's butt and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the snot out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's butt or He'll kick the snot out of you.

Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the snot out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary: She blushes.

John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary: She looks positively stricken.

John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary: She faints.

John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the snot out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's butt for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

http://www.jhuger.com/kisshankbutt.php

Things I want to post to Facebook but can't-yet #5

Why I am Unconvinced that there is a god (1999)

Because there is no proof, not one shred, that a god of any sort exists. Be honest... there is no physical evidence. If there were evidence, there wouldn't be any need for faith. There is also no evidence of heaven, hell, a devil or demons, or angels, or an afterlife.
Because there is no need, or use for, a god. A god is not necessary to explain the origins of things, or people, or morality-- there are rational, worldly explanations that actually make sense.

Because we cannot speculate on what a god is made of, or how he came into existence. We cannot imagine how he creates things and people, knows everything, or why he did what he allegedly did. Because a god just doesn't make sense.

Because a good god would be useless if he were not powerful, and a powerful god would not deserve worship unless he is good-- but there is no all powerful, good god, otherwise there would be no imperfection or suffering in the world.

Because the bible, the most widespread "proof" of god, is unreliable as a source of accurate information. It is internally inconsistent and contradictory, historically wrong, and filled with deep moral problems. The bible cannot be considered or consulted in the question of whether or not there is a god. It is no evidence at all.

Because the history of god-belief is rife with ignorance, superstition, intolerance, persecution, cruelty and hatred. Those people believed just as firmly in their faith as anyone alive today. This makes it more likely that religion was invented by people who wanted to control other people.

Because theology has fought and resisted nearly every major scientific discovery. Instead of embracing new knowledge, religion fears it. Religion resist liberty and reform, and freedom of information and freedom of thought.

Because god-belief was invented in the earliest days of man's ignorance. People did not know anything yet. They thought the world was flat, that disease, hurricanes, earthquakes, thunder and droughts were all caused by gods. It is unbelievable that primitive man guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered "the truth" about the origin of life. It is more believable that god(s) were invented by primitive people for the following reasons:

to explain natural events that they couldn't understand
they had an inability to cope with their fears of a death that was final and absolute
they had a need to provide enforceable laws with divine penalties
they had a child-like need to feel watched over and protected by a loving, powerful father-figure
Another reason for the continuation of religion is that the positions of power held by holy men depended on the beliefs of their followers.

Because everything that science has now described in detail were previously believed to be the exclusive handiwork of god-- from the origins of life, to the cause of natural phenomena (earthquakes, lightning and volcanoes, in fact all of the natural world), to the formation of stars and our own world, to the causes of mental illness and diseases...virtually everything you can think of. Religion retreats, loses ground, whenever a new fact is discovered. No new discovery HAS EVER supported a religious explanation of ANYTHING.

Because there is no evidence of communication with a god of any kind. Prayers are answered no more often than by flipping a coin, despite the fact it says in the bible that you need only ask, and ye shall receive. People report having a personal relationship with god, but they cannot demonstrate that this is not merely their imaginations and self-delusion.

I am unconvinced, and all the threats of eternal damnation cannot convince me.

I'm like Doubting Thomas... I'll believe when I put my hand in Christ's side.... until then, no. When someone can tell me the following, then it would at least be possible to accept the existence of a god:

What God is made of?

What is "spirit" made of?

Where are heaven and hell?

How did God make everything, and from what did he make it?

Where did God come from?

Why did God exist alone in an empty nothingness for an eternity before creating the universe?

How can he continue to exist without ingesting some sort of energy?

How can he exist in every point of the universe at once?

How can he know everything, past present and future?

Where are souls kept within our bodies?

Where were our 'eternal' souls before we were born, (or how can immortality begin at conception)?

When someone can provide these answers, then I could believe. Until then, my mind will not let me believe. I have no choice. I cannot accept that such an entity is possible.

The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike. When you come to realize why you do not believe in Zeus, you will understand why I do not believe in your god.

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/truth/990NoGodHarding.php

Things I want to post to Facebook but can't-yet #4

The link, once more: http://www.thinkatheist.com/photo/only-the-best-bs-er-can-get-away-with-this?context=featured

Things I want to post to Facebook but can't-yet #3

Again, here's the link if you need it: http://i.qkme.me/3q3ofb.jpg